Is being a summer camp counselor more beneficial to your career than taking an internship? By Rich Pedroncelli, APInternship (n.)- A scheme that would make Bernie Madoff proud.
I have discovered the perfect summer job. In this job, I am part of an organization that gives me duties that are critical to its long- and short-term success. Supervisors give me responsibilities such as interacting directly with customers on a daily basis, and they fully integrate me into the professional hierarchy. To top it all off, I am learning legitimate skills that will help me develop professionally when I move into the workforce. This mystery job I speak of: camp counselor. These are only a few of the many potential benefits of being a camp counselor, and I offer them not only to praise the occupation, but also to offer a propositional alternative to the profession’s biggest competitor: internships.
For the most part, interns do work that is wholly unrelated to any sort of day-to-day task that full-time employees fulfill. Indeed, not only do most offices give interns mundane tasks that the aforementioned employees would never do, but they are also given tasks that will only be taken over by another intern. In short, interning in any office, regardless of the field, will likely mean you will be performing more secretarial duties than industry-specific ones. Anyone thinking that taking an internship with Goldman Brothers will give him or her a better shot at becoming a full-time employee is misguided. As such, taking an internship for the sake of career advancement is an unwise decision.
As alluded above, internship experience rarely parallels relevant work experience. Moreover, a student with (all else equal) an internship experience — indeed, even two — will not receive a substantive boost in the hiring process. The dirty secret of the professional world is that everyone knows that internships are vehicles through which companies can unload their undesirables onto unsuspecting college students.
Given this, it is reasonable to conclude that internships provide few potential benefits for their laborious components. Not only are interns wasting time in their respective offices by performing arcane duties, they also are allowing their last free summers to go by the wayside. Indeed, for all intents and purposes, college summers are the last ones for which we will have a legitimate array of choices. Accordingly, students would be well advised to engage in activities that they would enjoy, as opposed to activities that they misguidedly believe will yield long-term benefits. To this end, there are more efficacies in volunteering, working in non-profits or even taking classes than doing an internship. However, the most benefit comes from being a camp counselor.
At my particular summer camp, Four Winds Westward Ho, I have learned many workplace skills that are more relevant than what I could obtain from an internship. For example, at Four Winds, located on tiny Orcas Island in the San Juan Islands off the coast of Seattle, I am fully integrated into the aforementioned professional hierarchy. I am given great responsibility; indeed, I am responsible for the physical, emotional and mental well-being of up to seven children for two four-week sessions.
Working at Four Winds has taught me perhaps the most important skill for any job: grit. Rather, working at a summer camp necessitates that I have the ability to seem happy and enthusiastic even when I am not. I have learned to deal with changes in the workplace on the fly, and I have learned to deal with people in the workplace that I do not like. In short, you should spurn the skullduggery of your potential internship to work at a summer camp. Indeed, whereas most internships are fraught with the malaise of the Carter administration and the excitement of the Buchanan administration, working at a summer camp is rife with enthusiasm that place them well above internships on the utility scale.
You might also be interested in:
- Reflections on an (unpaid) internship
- Three keys to a successful internship
- How to use spring break to get an internship
- Small Kitchen College: Finding an internship in the food industry
- 10 ways to lose your internship
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I think that the article brought up some great points that a lot of people overlook. Camp counselors really do a lot and hold a lot of responsibility. But, I do partially agree with the critics that say that internships are more important.
Honestly, I think the major factor here is what field of study you’re going into. For fields involving children [e.g. education, psychology], camp counselor experiences are great practical field experiences that are definitely career applicable and could give you resume a potential boost. BUT, for other fields [e.g. finance, engineering], it doesn’t really hold much relevance, and thus, internships would be more important.
[...] A recent opinion piece on USA Today College, titled Skip the internship, go to camp, suggested that you gain more valuable experience by being a summer camp counselor than you do by participating in internships in your desired vocation. The author’s argument is that most companies simply use interns to do the mundane tasks that full-time employees would never do, such as making copies and fetching coffee. He says that most interns only do work that is “wholly unrelated to any sort of day-to-day task that full-time employees fulfill.” You can read the article here: http://www.usatodayeducate.com/staging/index.php/blog/opinion-skip-the-internship-go-to-camp [...]
I’ve worked at a summer camp for the past 6 summers and I can proudly say that it has taught me far beyond what I could have learned anywhere else. I will say though the name and power of the camp goes a long way on a job application. Like someone had mentioned before there are very few elite camps that carry a weight around their region. Personally I worked for the largest residential camp in the country and has a strong following across the United States. Those that say it is easy work for lazy people who can’t get internships should think again. You are taking the parent’s most prizes possession. Their child is worth more than anything else they own, and in our case leave them with a complete stranger for nearly 4 weeks. Multiple Co-Workers of mine have received jobs and internships from parents of campers they once had. On top of that many of the parents who drop off their children at these camps (mine in particular) went to or worked at the camp itself, and they understand the responsibility and effort it takes to do a good job. I am not downplaying internships in any way but it is upsetting to hear that some people have a notion that ALL camp counselors are lazy and worthless. Look online and find some of the top camps in the country. They are probably run better than your selfish greedy companies you work for now because they are constantly caring for others and do not look for personal gain. Not to mention there are hundreds and thousands of camp alumni that work in major companies across the region my camp is located (Southeastern US). In many of our staff training sessions we have former staff members return and talk. They are usually just on there way to dropping their own child off, but a common theme among them all is: that when hiring, they would take a counselor from this camp over other applicants due to the meaningful work that they do every summer.
o.k. so there are good points to both internships and working at a camp. first, i have been working in the camping industry on and off since i was 15, now 33. I currently work for a camp, and love it. I have done internships, and they do have benefits, especially if you are hoping to gain employmnet from that same co. yes, you will do busy work, but that makes you look good in the end. you will learn communication skills, how to deal with stress in the workplace, and many other skills. now, as far as working for a summer camp…a counsler who lives with in a cabin with kids, and a kithcen employee are two different things. being responsible for upwards of 15 kids, for weeks at a time, dealing with home sickness, bathroom issues, medical issues, daily schedules, fueds between campers, emotional and physical, camper’s diets and hygien, and the list goes on and on. you are responsible for these children, as if you were their parents. these parents leave their children, their most significant thing in the world to them, with a college “kid” for weeks, while participating in sometimes dangerous activities like rock climbing, mountain biking, canoeing, kayaking, or baseball. there must be a huge level of trust, which means as a counsler, you must do a good job..your job is being responsible for not one, but say a dozen children. you can’t slack at this job..you get fired, real fast if you do! which means, if you complete a summer as a counsler, and did a good job, the rewards will stay with you for a lifetime. you will have learned skills that you can apply to everything else in life. believe me, on top of all that responsiblity, a counsler typically teaches classes during the day, so that is almost a full time job within itself. if you teach archery, you must maintain the program area, equipment, make schedules for staff and for campers. You have to follow saftey regs. displaying proper signage for rules, make sure the camp is following it’s accredidation guidlines. what can i say, being a camp counsler will prepare you for anything that comes your way in life, other than maybe knowing how to file for a hearing or trading stocks for all your clients!
This is so dumb. Get your facts straight. It’s Lehman Brothers or Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers was bought out so they don’t even exist anymore. Also, internships are the only way to land high paying jobs at many of these companies. No matter how tedious the task, you still are working for that prestigious company and they recognize that. Also, after inerning for these companies, after college you start out making $75,000-$100,000 your first year. They also normally pay for you to go to grad school and get your masters and then bring you back into the company making upwards of $150,000. That doesn’t sound too bad to me. Maybe everyone occupying wall street should take a lesson in where hard work will get you instead of expecting the government to hand out free shit to everyone that sits around all day.
You mentioned internships won’t help getting a job at Goldman Brothers (assuming you meant Goldman and Lehman (RIP))? Are you serious? Have you even recruited for finance? You have almost zero chance at a top competitive firm on Wall Street without prior solid internships (along with a good university and GPA).
And I’m not sure how it is for other majors/jobs, but anyone in business who chooses going to camp over a relevant internship should really think twice.
a three-month medlimutia internship at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Here’s a squib from the job ad: One day youa??ll be shooting breaking news photos and transmitting live from the scene, the next
Great article. In our opinion being a camp counsellor is one of the best things you can ever do and why we help people from all around the world get jobs at camps in America.
I worked as a summer camp counselor for four summers, and then moved on to applying to internships. While I loved working at my summer camp, and wish I could do it every summer, at a certain point the need to find a real-world job that would enhance the career opportunities I am pursuing became more necessary.
This isn’t to say that being a summer camp counselor is not easy work, or that the lessons learned from the experience are not important to personal and professional development. Communication skills, above all else, are prized by employers. What teaches you how to communicate specifically and efficiently more than working with children? Also, the enthusiasm required day in and day out as a counselor is demanding, and will become an important asset to be utilized in the workplace.
But four summers of this work was more than enough. Looking to land a job following graduation from college requires more than speaking ability and an upbeat personality. It also requires ambition and the demonstration that you are competent and capable. Internships provide this opportunity, no matter how mundane some of the work may be. And that being said, if you feel a specific internship will only offer those experiences, seek out fun and creative internships that are in line with your passions.
I like how this is written by a college Junior who clearly does not have a job yet. Nor does he have a great grasp on the English language.
Also, he is clearly misinformed if he thinks there’s a firm called “Goldman Brothers.” Unless he is trying to create a hypothetical firm that combines Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers (which is now defunct so I don’t know why you would include it), in which case the play on words not well played.
Internships are hailed, not for the actual work that you do, but for the fact that you had enough merit to be hired. Future employers see that you interned at a great firm and they are impressed because they trust the judgement of that firm. The same cannot be said for summer camps, unless you are working for the few elusive and well respected ones. Otherwise, almost any Jack or Jill could march kids from activity to activity.
Valiant effort though, but I most respectfully disagree. We shall see how far that summer camp job gets him.
Though, having said that, I do have a friend who never held an internship in his life and landed a great job out of college. But that was do to his own merit and the camp counselor position was of no help.
“…that was DO to his own merit”…Alex, if you’re going to criticize other people’s grammar or “grasp on the english language”, you should make sure yours is perfect, or else you completely discredit yourself.
I love camp. Even though it’s the hardest job I’ve ever had, it’s also the most fulfilling. There’s nothing better than working with other people who love camp as much as you do, and who are willing to put in as much effort as you are. I love this article, because the people who get camp, get it. I’m not sure I agree that internships are valueless, because I know of many opportunities that have stemmed from summer internships. However, if your passion is spending your summers in a place that makes you happy and emotionally healthy, and you are lucky enough to be able to do this, then go for it. You should not be in any hurry to rush off into the real world. It will always be there waiting for you.
Also, YOU are clearly misinformed if you think a camp counselor’s sole responsibility is “marching kids from activity to activity”. Who do you think teaches those activities? Who do you think stays up at night with campers who are homesick, upset or throwing up? Who do you think comes up with conversation topics at meals? Who comes up with creative activities in the evenings? Who dances until they are covered in sweat and exhausted to keep the children smiling? Camp counselors play the role of parent, big sister, mentor, teacher and friend. The responsibility is tremendous. The energy, love and creativity required to do a good job are unique to the position. To imply the a camp counselor is nothing more than a camper chauffeur is insulting and ignorant. People do not just hand off their kids to strangers on the street. There is a certain level of trust that must be established. The camp’s reputation is on the line with each of their employees. So, I am confident they select their counselors with a great deal of care, because that is how parents would pick the people to look after their most prized possessions. But, if you think it’s so easy, give it a try. At the very least, it might erase your cynical tone.
Please allow ME to most respectfully disagree that camp is so much more than “marching kids from activity to activity.” After a couple internships and a couple summers at camp, I can say that both are challenging, but both are rewarding.
Check out my opposing piece, http://www.usatodayeducate.com/staging/index.php/blog/opinion-camp-counselor-cant-compete-with-an-internship
Mannn, I’m dorilong. I love me some pancakes! Although usually I spread them out on my plate so I can put different toppings on each one.Glad you enjoyed your snow day! I have one today
I didn’t bother to read the comments, so it’s perfectly possible that someone else has already said this, but I think you don’t give internships enough credit. I have been a camp counselor for two consecutive summers and will likely continue to work that job for another two summers. It does offer very real, professional experience which can be applied in many workplace settings.
With that said, internships have huge amounts of very serious, value. I’ve had two internships in international development and in both of these, I was not relegated to menial tasks, but was doing very real work. I was analyzing and summarizing reports, writing profiles of NGOs and much more.
Additionally, you mention “Goldman Brothers”, which I take is an allusion to some Wall Street firms. Those internships are among the most serious summer jobs I could imagine, calling for upwards of 80 hours of work per week and often paying well in excess of $10k.
All of these internships do look good on a resume to some degree. I’ve had potential employers sound legitimately impressed with the experience I gained throughout my experiences interning. Being a camp counselor, does not appear to be so impressive on the surface. It’s up to an individual to present it as such, and it takes a persuasive person to do so.
Amen! Having had employees for thirty years, and interns for far too many of those years, I would (and have) hire someone who has been a camp counselor over an “intern” every day of the week.
I was one of the lucky teens that worked at a summer camp in northern Michigan. I was fortunate to work as a kitchen staff member where I learned how to shuck corn, wash tables and make sure large sheet cakes were cut evenly! As the next summer approached I moved up the ranks and became a counsler then a programer. I must say that the 6 summers I spent at Camp Walden in Cheboygan, were of the best in my life.I learned how to cook, clean and to laugh at mistakes and to try again to make things better the next time. I learned to take ownership of responsibility, to never give up on goals no matter how outrageous they seem when you begin and how to share love of nature, friendships, and dreams. Thanks to the owners, the Schechter and Stevens families I am what I am today because of summer camp. My daughters attended there and my oldest, now assistant director wants to hire me to again go to Camp Walden. As a teacher I can do this and as a dreamer I know that I can return to the place where dreams are made and life shines like a star filled sky!
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My family has been in the camping business since the 1930′s. I was a camper, counselor and department head and learned some of the best “life” lessons and skills that have bode me very well in my life and to which I refer to again and again. Not only is being a camp counselor an excellent skill builder for any career choice, it is also a positive environment for building lifelong relationships – personal and business. It is definitely a win-win experience.
I definitely agree with the main point but this article sounds like it was written by a high school student with a thesaurus…
This is so true and so beneficial! All I ever needed to know I learned being a camp counselor (the learning began in kindergarten) but working at camp was and is the internship for life and literally for me because I am a camp director!
I worked mate, for 7 U.S. Summers, incl. Camp Minnehaha, Camp Twin Creeks, and the Tyler Place Family Resort. One definitely learns a lot about dealing with people/equipment\timetabling issues and so on and so forth; that you can definitely relate to life in a larger scale down the track. And fun fun fun, in the sun…and the rain, ohh the Summer rains! I would(&do) reccomend a season (or two!) of being a camp counsellor to everyone.
As a funtastic life experience, it’s hard to beat.
The memories and the friendships you make ARE unbeatable.
Great article – hailing, as I do, from the UK I can safely say that the experiences gained over 2 summers working at Eagle’s Nest Camp in North Carolina have been a major factor in progressing my career and helped me to get 2 great full-time jobs (as an Events Coordinator for 2 years and just now as a Teaching Assistant taking a paid teacher training course).
Perhaps it’s different if you’re an American where summer camps are part of your heritage but across the pond, it really sets you apart as having something interesting to talk about in the job interview rather than just tenuously linking all the usual buzzwords (e.g. “committed, hard-working, flexible, adaptable skills, good team player” etc…) to the standard experiences of having completed a degree, working in retail or playing a sport – EVERYBODY has done these things!
Interviewers have been interested to chat about my travels across the States and I have been able to draw on numerous accounts that prove some of the genuine adaptable skills and grit that are demanded from working 24/7 looking after children and planning every minute of their days – good leadership skills? Making sure that 15 twelve year olds wake up at 7:30am every morning and stick to their schedules Initiative and Resilience? Try planning classes that’ll please a 6 year old girl, a 13 year old with ADHD and Tourettes and a gang of 16 year old boys.
Add to that a whole host of brilliant friends, lifelong memories and some great parties and ask me if I’d rather spend 6 months doing paperwork for an office with my fingers crossed that it’ll eventually be worth it and it’s an obvious choice!
My experience may be biased and somewhat skewed for you guys because I’m from a country where jetting off to America for 4 months is unusual and exciting, but since stumbling out of uni with a good degree but no other real experiences summer camp has been the making of my early 20′s. V. interesting debate.
Wow, this article is getting a lot of attention! I had written an opposing piece a couple of months ago, check it out :
http://www.usatodayeducate.com/staging/index.php/blog/opinion-camp-counselor-cant-compete-with-an-internship
[...] This is a must read! This is what we have been talking about! This is why camp is important! http://www.usatodayeducate.com/staging/index.php/blog/opinion-skip-the-internship-go-to-camp [...]
I have been involved in organized camping for over 50 years. First as a family camp member as a toddler, then a camper, then counselor, ski director, waterfront director, assistant director and for the past 30 years owner/ director of a private midwestern camp. This article is fabulous! The comments both pro and con are great! Thank you all for stressing the importance of being a camp counselor! It is truly one of the most satisfying experiences a young adult can have to prepare them for what lies ahead. Not to mention the positive impact they have on the future of our children and our society as a whole. Internships are one thing. Camp counselors are everything!
People often respond to opinion pieces with much ardor, as their own life experiences are ingrained so deeply in their minds. I, personally, have had great experiences working in both internships and summer camps; and while I don’t agree with the author about every point, I strongly agree that summer camps offer a wide array of skills that mirror those necessary to succeed in the “working” world.
The summer before my junior and senior year of college I interned at an insurance company in Hong Kong where I was among one of two (out of a total of about 20) interns doing what many would consider actual work. I did research for expanding into other markets. I wrote proposals, made data tables, and created presentations. I went to business meetings and helped organize an international forum for regional CEOs. Most importantly, I was extended a job offer for after graduation.
But the value of interning is not just tied to the development of skills and future job offers. Interning follows in the great tradition of apprenticeship: an opportunity to not only learn a job, but to see if one enjoys it. My internship served me greatly in this aspect. Although I learned much and was successful, I realized that my calling was not to sit behind a desk for 9 hours a day, regardless of how interesting the work was. My calling lay elsewhere, and my internship helped me to rethink my direction while still providing me with valuable experience and skills.
During my senior year of college I took a sociology of education class that inspired me to pursue a career in education. I volunteered at a local school and fell in love with the work.
I entered my masters degree program only two weeks after graduating from undergrad. I completed three internships over the course of a year and knew I found the job for me. There was something about working with teenage students that was very compelling. My internships helped me with my realizations and made for an easy transition into my first year of teaching. Needless to say, I am a strong advocate for internships.
The passion I found for summer camp is newer. After my first year of teaching I was looking for a fun summer job and found it at KenMont/KenWood Camps. I was simply excited to find a job working with students in a different capacity than “math teacher.” What I discovered was an environment of learning, fun, and exploration. Often teachers forget what it’s like to be a student and learn a new skill. Struggling to shoot a basketball gave me a whole new appreciation for my students’ struggles in math; even simple skills can be difficult to master when new. Just how I encourage my students to practice math at home, I needed to practice basketball frequently if I ever wanted to improve and keep up with my campers.
What surprised me most was how much of the experience actually translated directly into making me a better teacher. I learned patience and effective strategies for working with children. During camp orientation I found myself constantly reflecting on my practice and planning better classroom management. I learned effective strategies for dealing with conflict and how to comfort children. I also learned the importance of working within a hierarchy. Like teaching, being a camp counselor meant I served in the middle: higher than campers or students, but lower than the administration. As a middle I learned to empathize with the bottoms and work with the tops to make camp/school run as smoothly as possible. Camp essentially taught me lessons on handling the emotional side of children and teaching.
In addition, working at a sleep-away camp helped me prioritize my personal time, something with which most new teachers struggle. When you work with children all day and are responsible for creating lesson plans outside of school, it’s often difficult to set aside time for yourself. The same can be true at camp when you are with your campers all day and night. Your “me” time keeps your sanity levels stable. Realizing the importance of this at camp helped me come to the same realization in my career.
Educators work incredibly hard throughout the year and constantly strive to improve. Teaching is perhaps the most rewarding and difficult job I can imagine. As such, I found camp a much needed change of pace in my life. Having majored in math, my understanding of math content was well developed. Learning to interact with children and relate to them on their level was a priority for me. Camp assists me in my development and allows me to have fun and relax at the same time (essential for teacher sustainability).
Now in my third year of inner city teaching, I finally feel as though I have a life again. I’ve learned to manage both my time and my students better. My success stems not just from my many internships, but from my camp experiences as well. They say you can’t have your cake and eat it too, but I don’t believe this is true of internships and working at a camp. In all reality, you will probably only intern one or two summers, which leaves two to three other summers to work at camp. The camp experience is an amazing one, and has much more to offer you than a paycheck and a summer of fun. To paraphrase David Hume: we are an amalgamation of our experiences. No matter how you choose to spend your summers, those experiences will shape who you become and how you choose to live in the world. Be reflective in all that you do and you will always grow as a person and walk away from any experience enriched and better off. As for me, I know I’ll continue to return to camp each year in search of both fun and development.
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[...] college student interns? That’s exactly the claim put forward by Darryl Brown in his short article appearing in USA Today. He describes being a camp counselor as the “perfect summer [...]
Why does everyone think that all camps cater to rich kids? I worked in counselor placement for several years & it takes a very special person to work at some of those camps catering to inner city, disabled, etc, kids. In the same way as not all internships are about making coffee, not all camps are for entertaining rich kids.
As a parent and an employer, I would be very happy to interview someone who has done a good job of acting “in loco parentis” for the summer – it’s damned hard work! Most of the camp counselors I’ve met are very committed young adults.
I was once offered an unpaid internship in a field related to my major and couldn’t take it because I needed to make a buck- all the interns were kids whose parents could afford to support them, so the argument against camps being for rich kids can also work against internships! As a hirer, I would look first at a person who’s supported themselves through college.
At my office we take interns seriously, but I know from them that not everywhere does- every place is different, just like every camp. In the end, you have to sell yourself & the whole package to the employer.
You’re right, flloow the almighty dollar regardless of whether you actually enjoy what you’re doing. Have fun on your long journey to the middle and that boring life in teh suburbs.
I went to camp and also had two internships so I skipped camp for a year. Since then, I’ve been back twice for sessions in the summer. Camp is a calling for some, it’s also a paycheck which most internships these days do not offer. So yeah, if you get an internship that’s going to get you a job postgraduation there’s no reason to turn one down. But camp? It’s a place to cultivate skills and relationships that last a lifetime. I think college students who are inclined should do both.
So instead of trying to get applicable pre-professional work experience, one ought to cater to and pamper over-privileged children?
I went to summer camp for eight years – five spent as a camper, three as a counselor. I loved every single summer; I gained invaluable insight into the whole “who-I-am-as-a-person” sort of thing, while at the same time earning substantial cultural capital. These years were hugely beneficial to me insofar as they reinforced positive social behavior and then encouraged intellectual growth. I wish that all kids could have such an experience – summer camp is a terrific opportunity.
However, no one should suffer the illusion that working at a summer camp in any way: 1) prepares you for “real world” work or 2) gives you an opportunity to do something greater than any internship can.
Author, have you ever had an internship? Do you assume that all internships consist of “hey, no-name, get my coffee for me” or “bring my shoes down the block for a nice shine?” If so, this is absurd. I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that the author comes from a background of privilege – like myself – and therefore doesn’t really need a particularly remunerative summer job. If such is the case – like it is with many other camp counselors, I imagine; because seriously, who else other than former campers (and the outlier, the rando-person that was someone’s college roommate) returns as counselors to a camp, a place of upper middle-class privilege? – if such is the case, then Author, why don’t you seek out an internship that does truly valuable work for a community, an internship in which you could still gain all of these “skills” and “experiences” that you can somehow seamlessly transfer into your professional aptitude?
If you’re worried they don’t exist, well, don’t worry. Because they do. They’re everywhere. Some other comments mentioned how being a camp counselor can foster the development of future educators and whatnot. Yeah, sure, cool – but how about having potential future educators actually do real educating? Because that would be a pretty concrete set of experiences that you could apply to a future position: responsibility for writing a lesson plan, developing an appropriate demeanor in front of a classroom, performing checks for learning, blending work-life with home-life (e.g., figuring out how to get a kid who struggles with doing homework after school because he has to take care of younger siblings for hours while he waits for his parents to return home from the minimum-wage jobs that they spend more than 12 hours a day at)…
Does any of this make sense? Am I getting through to you Author? Do you realize why your argument sounds petty, vapid, self-absorbed, and, ironically, misanthropic?
I hope this makes sense. I hope you understand why your argument does nothing more than perpetuate a cycle of privilege in which a good portion of this country just gets absolutely screwed over, a cycle that prevents all kids from having the ability to go to the cherished summer camp, a cycle that will probably even contribute to your own anxiety and frustrations w/r/t finding a job in the real world. Because the more time that you spend paddling canoes and pretending you’re gaining “experience” translates immediately into less time spent building a community for the future in which everyone can succeed, and thus have time to go to Camp Westward Ho. But, because you’ve got so much “grit” from working at camp, I’m sure that you won’t find this comment the least bit offensive w/r/t how fake and plastered your argument is.
Gladney
I am not from a background of privilege. In fact, I received a scholarship to go to my summer camp. And your suggestions are valid. You should do whatever you feel is best for you during the summer, all things considered. In my case, that’s working at my summer camp, not completing an internship. This is my perspective, that’s why it’s an opinion piece.
Also, Gladney, I think you are simply arguing to much. No summer job can do what you suggest that my camp cannot.
Why should I not be argumentative? You posit an absolutely ridiculous, sweeping generalization of what an internship is and why it is inferior to being a camp counselor. Of course many unpaid internships are nothing more than glorified slave labor – this is as indisputable as it is reprehensible. Darryl, I’m sure that you may have learned a whole lot at your summer camp, but if you’re seeking a position in a highly competitive market (i.e., this economy), placing “Summer Camp” on your resumé will suggest nothing more impressive than working any other service position. Not to mention the (sometimes correct, sometimes incorrect) mental associations between camp counselors and laziness and privilege.
As I alluded to earlier, there are plenty of education-related internships that give students the opportunity to actually teach. Additionally, many of these internships actually pay – not necessarily well, but sometimes enough to live on. There are also many paying internships in other fields – many of my friends this past summer worked in fields ranging from computer science to publishing to environmental conservation. And, in addition to pay, they received pertinent work skills. These skills that you assert only summer camps can teach are literally on display everywhere, e.g., “[seeming] happy and enthusiastic even when [you are] not”: you walk into a restaurant and a host/hostess kindly informs you that “the wait will be 20 minutes.”
I just think you’re naive if you believe that this “grit” that you’ve mastered from summer camp is above all a Unique concrete skill that you can apply to any job, but cannot get from any other job.
Gladney,
I think you need to re-read the piece very carefully, and then re-read your statements. You would do well to learn what strawmanning is as well.
Gladney
I am in charge of approving all of the hiring for my Fortune 500 company in New York City and I would look at a candidate based on summer camp experience just as much (if not a little bit more so) than one with internship experience. The point is, get out and do something. Summer camp or an internship. This article does a wonderful job of describing how rewarding working as a summer camp counselor can be. You would be hard pressed to find as many happy interns as you would find happy camp counselors. And happy people do far more productive work than those who are not happy.
As a junior who worked at camp the past two summers, I can agree with many of the author’s claims. Nonetheless, what qualifies him to make them? Darryl is himself a college student, not an employer, and not a member of the working world. Camp shapes people and is a good start, but it does not make someone significantly competitive in the working world. Here’s a biased, pedantic counterargument for Darryl: If anyone working at Camp Moose Creek believes that their resume is the golden child of some Fortune 500 company, then they are sadly mistaken. I work at summer camp because I get paid to have a good time. I will be applying for internships this summer because I would like my career options to go beyond working with children.
I never knew other people felt this way, so the article was inspiring!
Is anyone here in this discussion in a position of leadership? It takes a long time to rise through the ranks to become the leader– and when you get there, you probably don’t have a lot of experience “leading” and being in charge of everyone else, because most jobs begin at the bottom, where you do not lead, but you follow. But the of course there are Leadership training institutes for thousands of dollars for that!…or there is camp!
As the head of my whole department, I cannot explain how much of my success I owe to being a camp counselor. I am not kidding. I think about it a lot, just never thought to say it out loud!As a counselor at a sleep away camp, I was 18 or 19. I was in charge of, and responsible for, 12 middle school aged girls. I planned their activities for the week ( coordinating with the other counselors and specialists) I kept them on schedule, I worked tirelssly to create a positive experience for the campers I led by example by participating in all activities, and I kept good relationships with the upper administration in the camp. During Color War, I was a “Captain” for half the camp. I literally organized and rallied 150 kids to give their all in all the activites. I arranged meetings, delgated tasks to those below me, I thought creatively about how we could be the best, and be innovative and I thought about how our team could impress the “judges.” Throughout it all I led by example…..A lot like what I do everyday at work. I have to organize mt team, delegate, keep a positive work environment, show up everyday, and have a vision for the future of my company.
There is no way I would ever have such incredible opportunites to be a leader and to have such great fresponsibility at such a young age in any other job. Never.
I disagree, yes there is value to working as a camp counselor but there is no reason to bash the internship experience. I learned very similar skills (communicating effectively, working with clients, working under pressure, thinking on my feet, etc) in the context of a PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT!
I get it, camp is great, you learn a lot about yourself, it’s a good experience. But let’s not kid ourselves, each internship experience is different and unique and it really is what you make it, if you work hard and aggressively pursue your goals chances are you’ll be a valued employee and you will have a great experience. Leading an arts and crafts session, facilitating children’s games, and canoeing will never be valued more highly than a legitimate professional experience.
you never went did you? awwwww…..
Where did you get your information that Camp is not a PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT? We learn at camp alot more than a professional atmosphere will provide for interns that comes in at a entry level. I am a Recreation Management Major at a school in Michigan and work every summer at a camp in Ohio. We learn about risk management, program designing, hospitality. It’s not all about leading craft and facilitating canoeing. We learn about people to people interaction that to be honest, a lot of Human Resource department lacks. I don’t think this article was bashing internship experience but just saying that just because you hear about people working at camp, doesn’t mean that they are not fit to work in a professional environment outside of camp. We have to deal with working under pressure every week. I have seen a guy that was an “Professional” collapse under the pressure that occurs at camp. Try working at a camp when you are responsible for 5-10 campers or if you are on the leadership team, you are responsible for 30-90 kids and there was a severe Thunderstorm happening. That’s learning how to think on your feet to A) provide safety for the campers and B) making sure that they are occupied with safe programs so they don’t go into a panic frenzy. Camping will always be a place for Camp Staff to help build the foundation of what they want to do with their lives, Believe it or not, more and more parents (not all) are starting to become detached from their kids lives so camp counselors have to step in that role to find out how to help the campers discover their purpose in life. Like I said, We do lead a professional type of atmosphere at camp.
Jeff, please check your grammar, it is very unprofessional. Typos and syntax errors may be acceptable at camp but in the professional world (the one where you don’t wear shorts to work) it is simply unacceptable.
Camp is a great experience, however the author made a number of unsupported accusations, specifically, internships do not give you an edge in the job market. A number of large firms use their internship program as an extended interview process and make offers to graduating seniors.
I would like to start by thanking everyone for having this conversation.
There are many incredible points that are being brought up on both sides of the conversation, but I think there needs to be some clarification.
The value for working at a summer camp is NOT the access to jobs immediately following graduation. The value of working at a summer camp is your ability to be successful and out shine those around you once you have that job.
Here are the important take aways:
Employers – If you see that someone has experience working as a camp counselor at an overnight summer camp, you should assume that the candidate is hard working, a dedicated team player, an innovative thinker, and a quality communicator. The candidate most likely has a strong sense of self, the ability to think on their feet under pressure, and a passion to do more than help themselves. They have the soft skills/interpersonal skills to be an exceptional employee and a true leader in your organization. They have the skills and personality that is hard to find.
College students – The pressure to get a job is real and is intimidating. You are competing with friends and siblings to be seen as successful. Above all, you don’t want to disappoint your parents. I get it. The point that is trying to be made is that working at camp is an investment that will pay off in the future. Yes, the internship might help you get hired, but the skills you will learn at camp will lead you to success for the rest of your life. Once you have a job, no one cares about your internships…they only care about the quality of your work and the quality of your character.
I studied at a top 10 undergraduate university, had an internship at a top hightech company in Silicon Valley, and worked MANY summers at camp. My experiences at camp shaped who I am. My dream internship was boring and useless.
Great article! Believe it or not you can have the best of both worlds – our company places college students and prospective interns at Summer Camps across the country! At a camp you can learn life skills and work in your area of academic interest!
http://10for2.campcraze.com
info@campcraze.com
It’s almost impossible for someone just completing an internship to have any perspective on it’s long term value. I too, spent my college summers, over 20 years ago, as a counselor rather than taking “a real job.” I did not end up in a field that had anything to do with children, but the skills I learned, and the confidence I gained from the responsibilities I was given, were immeasurable. A further advantage of summer camps are the connections you make. I do business, and network with many people with whom our only commanality is that at one time we were at the same summer camp.
i think the article and the responses are filled with valid points. i know that working at summer camp can train a staff member in skills that will be used throughout their life and that an internship can give a student a leg up when joining the workforce. check out my presentation on “want a successful business, hire a camp counselor” – http://campleadership.org/speakingtraining
dave
CampLeadership.org
As someone who has made dozens of entry level offers for a Fortune 500 company to recent graduates, I was delighted to see this article. Mr. Brown correctly identifies several skill sets a (good) camp counselor acquires — real responsibility, creativity, flexibility, accountability. Not to mention a critical intangible of the employee hiring process — an ability to not take oneself so seriously all the time and maybe even have a sense of humor. Very few internships — including those in my own office — offer that kind of “seniority” at such a young age.
While it is true that certain fields will eschew this as irrelevant to their industries, many will not, especially fields such as consumer marketing and retail. So please, enjoy those summers while you can, and know that for everyone employer who scoffs at a summer camp job, there will be an equal number of us who will welcome you and look forward to having you on board.
I was struck by Brown’s article, but even more struck by the comments. Sure, traditional internships provide valuable experience to budding investment bankers, media consultants, and those seeking other corporate professions, and they generally don’t involve bug spray or dodge ball. However, let us not forget the need for high-quality training opportunities for future professionals in education, environmental science, nursing, cooking, social work – and the list goes on. These are all professions for which you can get great early experience at a camp. Personally, I have developed a career in the youth development field from what I learned as a camp counselor and administrator. My husband-to-be wrote about the transferable skills he learned at camp in his law school application; 10+ years later of practicing law, he continues to recognize the value of his camp experience. So, a camp-based work experience might not be for everyone, but we have to remember that our society has a great need for great teachers, social workers, etc., and young minds who aspire to work in these occupations can build a great knowledge and experience base in the camping field. I definitely encourage college students to have an internship experience in a field that interests them and allows them to explore career options – for the right person, a camp is a great place to start.
This really depends on your field of study.
I’m a computer science major, and recently completed a very fulfilling summer internship. More than other majors, it’s very possible to jump relatively quickly into real work in computer science, especially if you’re talented. I learned a great deal that would’ve been hard to learn on my own, as I solved problems that only come up on a large scale, and I made quite a bit of money to pay rent for the fall and spring.
This was a joke right? Or a dare? You don’t actually believe this….right? I’m a rising junior and doing a summer internship with a contract lobbying firm. I get paid and do much of the same work as anyone else. If you show promise and skill, you will be given more important work. If you just ‘show up’ you’ll be an unpaid secretary.
Oh, and I’m getting hired when I graduate. Do you see a fulfilling, wellpaying career at camp?
You think you do much of the same work as anyone else? Are you insane? As the author pointed out, it is extremely unlikely that you are doing anything remotely resembling what a full time employee is doing. If you were, then you would be a full time employee. And given the nature of your condescending post, I am sure you may think that you are getting hired when you graduate, but you are foolish to be so confident. A lot can change in two years, especially in the lobbying industry.
you never got to go to camp, either, right? awwwww….. so sad. You have no idea what you’re talking about! The networking alone makes being a camp counsellor worth it!! Whose kids do you think you are looking after? Camp is expensive!!! Most camp kids parents are professional people and if you do even a remotely decent job they will love you FOR LIFE. This often translates into some amazing connections!!
With that attitude, good luck getting hired.
You’re too condescending for anyone to consider hiring you for any REAL profession… oh wait, you’re an aspiring lobbyist. Good luck home girl
Yes. More so than ANY other job. You have to wear dress clothes and commute. I live on camp and get to play all day long. I feel bad for you.
Yes, I do see a fulfilling, well paying career at camp. In fact, I am a full-time, benefited, Summer Camp Director. I have been in this field professionally for 10 years and I can tell you that of the many different occupations I have held over the years, this is without a doubt the most fulfilling.
You CAN make this into your full time and well paying job. I started as a residential camp counselor at age 17 and have not looked back! I now work as a director of a park district and love my job. The lessons I learned at camp shape the person I am today. I got my degree in parks and recreation, yes it is a real degree. I enjoy going to work and what I do, not many people can say that. No matter what you do for work you should enjoy what you do.
I’m sorry but I can’t agree with this at all. Working for next to nothing, with annoying upper-middle class children in the blistering heat is no place for a rising junior in college. How would I know? I’ve been there before. Camp was fun when I was younger, but now it’s time to improve my resume.
I, too, am also a rising Junior. If you look hard enough, you can find a paid internship, or at least one that gives you the same responsibilities as an entry-level employee. I had a thoroughly enjoyable as a paid summer intern at a worldwide publishing company. The experience has been barnone, the best.
Having a position within a company as an intern, ABSOLUTELY correlates to being hired. Many of my co-workers who are a few years older than me were interns a few seasons ago. Once you are an intern, within an organization, you are entered into the recruitment database. This is also easier for when you need a job after graduation and have at least one place to turn.
My HR manager specifically told me, “At this point in your life, you should have some solid work experience related to your field of study.” She said working retail or summer camp jobs should be place holders, and not replacements for corporate tasks.
Truth be told, last year I had an awful summer internship. It happens. We all can’t find jobs we love, but we have to start somewhere.
“Truth be told, last year I had an awful summer internship. It happens. We all can’t find jobs we love, but we have to start somewhere.”
That’s the point of the article.
Thanks for the comments!
To clarify: I argue that the benefits of internships are non-unique. As such, if one were contemplating completing an internship solely for the sake of work experience or something to that effect, then an internship would not be a wise investment.
As I said: “interns [are] wasting time in their respective offices by performing arcane duties, they also are allowing their last free summers to go by the wayside…[these] are the last ones for which we will have a legitimate array of choices. Accordingly, students would be well advised to engage in activities that they would enjoy, as opposed to activities that they misguidedly believe will yield long-term benefits. To this end, there are more efficacies in volunteering, working in non-profits or even taking classes than doing an internship. However, the most benefit comes from being a camp counselor.”
As I wrote, there are many mechanisms by which one can obtain the benefits of an internship while doing something they enjoy. My particular occupational preference is camp counselor.
May you forever stay a camp counselor Darryl, because the real world will eat you alive.
Not necessarily. I spent sixteen summers doing various jobs at camps with a variety of raisons d’etre. There are summer camps (while not necessarily outdoor ones) that will benefit the IT person, the future math teacher/accountant/actuary, the future environmental scientist, the future business office manager, the future farm manager/horse trainer, etc. Camp isn’t just all about fun and games–it’s about life skills, independence, stretching out of your comfort zone etc. and it is the staff that bring about those experiences with great efficacy. For many of the staff, this is true, too. I look back on those summers with great affection and I am especially happy that I was also able to grow myself. As for professionalism, these are professional environments–our clients are our campers and their families, we have to carry out our duties to the kids whether or not we feel like it, there are NO sick days (unless the camp nurse says we have to), no vacation days (just weekend breaks, and even then those don’t come every weekend), and we are responsible for those children 24/7 for the duration of their stay (though we are required to take two hours off every day, we are still “on camp” and must be available in case of emergency). We have to ensure their safety and make sure the kids are engaged. We have to think on our toes to come up with Plan B, C, D through Z for rainy days, days when supplies aren’t available, scheduling conflicts, etc. Flexibility is an absolute must. So is advanced planning, and making sure the paperwork gets done. The pay isn’t super, but you have no way of spending it unless you get off camp on the weekend. That’s my take.
I have to ask a couple of questions after reading this.
1) Has the author ever spoken with someone in charge of hiring at an organization?
2) has the author ever had an internship?
3) What career field is the author pursuing?
I have just completed an internship that provided irreplaceable work experience I could not have gotten at a camp. And it is possible to do internships at volunteer organizations. My father hires individuals in a very scientific field and I constantly hear about the resumes he sees. He would rather see someone with an undergraduate degree and 2 internships than a master’s degree. Some fields, it is impossible to fully understand the work you are getting into without seeing it first hand.
Do I agree that some larger companies (And perhaps smaller) misuse internships? Yes…however, when a student takes the time to research and work at a good internship, they have multiple benefits. They have practiced the work, they have networking connections, and perhaps even a chance at a job. When the author states they have no boost towards jobs, that is plan wrong. I currently live with an individual who has a job lined up after graduation because of his 1.5 year coop/internship.
I have a question for you.
Have you ever been a camp counselor?
If not than your input is biased and you need to consider this from the opposing point of view.
I was a camp counselor myself last summer, and while I don’t regret a second of it I wouldn’t go so far as to say that it was at all in the interest of my career. It was a ton of fun- but unless a student is pursuing a career that involves children, I think it’s safe to say it’s not much more than that. If you want to stretch it a bit more, sure, there’s some micro-management involved there. But the way the author approaches the subject, he basically claims that it’s the best thing a person can do for their career. Good luck trying to sell that to an interviewer.
I think the author is not only, as the above mentioned, pretentious but also stating all of their points without any basis of fact or evidence. I’m not asking for statistics here, but a couple of quotes from others with similar/dissimilar opinions would have certainly helped his point.
How can the author make comments like “Given this, it is reasonable to conclude that internships provide few potential benefits for their laborious components.” Huh? How can a person conclude anything from the authors incessant bashing of one side while putting his own on a pedestal?
Anyway, general feedback for Darryl : The best way to approach rhetoric is never conceit. Try a more approachable writing style. And drop the bias.
To USATODAY, is there an opposing opinion piece already posted/on it’s way?
Shoot an email to usatcollegeblog@gmail.com about writing an opposing piece. Thanks!
I was excited to read this article when I saw the title. I agree that being a camp counselor can be a hugely beneficial experience (not to mention tons of fun).
And then I actually read the article. There might be a few good points hidden in there, but it was hard to see past the sweeping generalizations, stuffy wording and pretentious tone. This is a blog post, not a term paper.
My summer as a camp counselor was one of the best summers of my life, but my internship experiences have also been immeasurably important for my career. What’s best for you depends on lots of things, like the field you want to enter and whether or not you actually enjoy looking after kids 24/7. There’s a good subject here, but next time try actually starting a discussion instead of preaching.
I agree, it seems the writer thinks every internship is exactly the same. I can see how being a camp counselor shows you have people skills and you can be trusted and all that, but if I had taken a job as a camp counselor this summer instead of as an intern it would not have benefit my career at all. I’ll be the first to admit that my internship wasn’t 100% filled with meaningful work but I’ve learned a lot and made a lot of great connections. My manager has pretty much guarenteed me a full time position in her department upon my graduation. Sure you learned a lot of great communication skills as a counselor but unless a recruiter has the same level of love/knowledge of being a camp conselor as you, there is a very good chance that a person with an internship in the field could get picked for an interview over you.